Mature rated SATAM cartoon anybody?

[LaserX5]

And the majority of fans were rather pleased with that direction. The problem I have with most of the dark representation of Sonic is they have a very pretentious feel about them. The characters aren't made for grown up and morbid plotlines, Sonic's a cute wacky little cartoon animal. Nearly every instance they try to make him dark they dilute the cast's personalities, they place them in environments and storylines that don't fit them at all (eg. the photo realistic human cities) and place loads of superfluous death scenes that have no genuine emotional value (Gamma's death was about the only one I could swallow due to it having a cute connection to original titles and the character being sympathetic enough to miss).

I get what you're trying to say, but I still think the Sonic series could be more darker and make it work, if written correctly of course.

I mean, in some cases, SA2 was a considered a bit of a dark game. That was the first time Amy and Tails actually thought Sonic was killed. Plus, the final story of that game was a bit on the dark side too.

SatAm was dark, but in a toned down 'family viewing' manner. It still kept this whimsical surreal depiction about it and tried to keep things simple. The odd occasion it tried to use a more convoluted or morbid plotline it usually ended up falling on it's face.

I think that had to do more with the fact that DIC doesn't know how to pull off a dark situation correctly. Sure, they made Satam, and it was dark storyline, but the fact they didn't really nail down the scenes that weren't exactly kid friendly was a testament to this. When Charles mentioned the fact he knew what was going on while roboticized, for example, but couldn't do anything about it, he didn't seem to show any anger or anguish about it.

I don't know about you, but if that happened to me, it would be a very awful experience.

Even the scenes where Mobians were being roboticized, it was like some goofy transformation instead of showing the horror it really was. I mean, having someone turned to metal and a slave should have been portrayed alot worse. The idea of ending that way should send chills up your spine.

Light hearted storylines can still be deep and enjoyable (eg. Disney films) there's a key difference between light hearted and juvenile plotlines.

Yea, true.

The problem with that though IMO is if you're going to have a dark storyline, it needs to be stay consistent. Not saying you can't have moments of warmth and love, but if a series is going to be about a mad man as the villain, trying to cause chaos and disorder, then they need to keep it that way in terms of plot and character development.

[Elisto Dragonwings]

I mean, in some cases, SA2 was a considered a bit of a dark game.

SA2 was kind of dark, and I like it for that; it had the right tone for a somewhat more serious Sonic game. It did have death (Maria) and destruction (blowing up the moon) that were taken seriously, but it wasn't overdone and depressing either. It kind of reminds me of the tone of SatAM, actually. So yeah, I think it has been done well in the games, even if the later games seem to have failed at incorporating darker concepts.

When Charles mentioned the fact he knew what was going on while roboticized, for example, but couldn't do anything about it, he didn't seem to show any anger or anguish about it.

I don't know about you, but if that happened to me, it would be a very awful experience.

Even the scenes where Mobians were being roboticized, it was like some goofy transformation instead of showing the horror it really was. I mean, having someone turned to metal and a slave should have been portrayed alot worse. The idea of ending that way should send chills up your spine.

I didn't think it was a "goofy transformation". I admit, the way it was shown I thought could have been better, but I don't think what we got was bad.

And I've seen a lot of people comment on Charles's non-reaction to explaining their awareness, but since he's so calm about it and seems confused when he's first "brought back", I've always wondered if their consciousness is more like when a person's just about to fall asleep; you might be aware of what's going on, but not fully, and your ability to react emotionally is off. Only when you wake up do you really process what was going on.

[LaserX5]

And I've seen a lot of people comment on Charles's non-reaction to explaining their awareness, but since he's so calm about it and seems confused when he's first "brought back", I've always wondered if their consciousness is more like when a person's just about to fall asleep; you might be aware of what's going on, but not fully, and your ability to react emotionally is off. Only when you wake up do you really process what was going on.

Hmmm....

That does make some sense.

The only thing though that still bothers me about the explanation is the fact he said, "We know everything, but we can't do anything about it."

If that is true, that mean Charles must have witnessed everything vile Robotnik did during those long 10 years.

[GekiTheReviewer]

And I've seen a lot of people comment on Charles's non-reaction to explaining their awareness, but since he's so calm about it and seems confused when he's first "brought back", I've always wondered if their consciousness is more like when a person's just about to fall asleep; you might be aware of what's going on, but not fully, and your ability to react emotionally is off. Only when you wake up do you really process what was going on.

Hmmm....

That does make some sense.

The only thing though that still bothers me about the explanation is the fact he said, "We know everything, but we can't do anything about it."

If that is true, that mean Charles must have witnessed everything vile Robotnik did during those long 10 years.

Still doesn't mean he could really be conscious about everything. It could be like when you dream, and don't even remember you had one till hours after you wake up.

[E-122 Psi]

I mean, in some cases, SA2 was a considered a bit of a dark game.

SA2 was kind of dark, and I like it for that; it had the right tone for a somewhat more serious Sonic game. It did have death (Maria) and destruction (blowing up the moon) that were taken seriously, but it wasn't overdone and depressing either. It kind of reminds me of the tone of SatAM, actually. So yeah, I think it has been done well in the games, even if the later games seem to have failed at incorporating darker concepts.

The Gerald Robotnik revelation in the final story I think was a bit too grim (where a completely depressed and mentally destroyed man vows revenge on the world before getting executed). It gets grimmer or eased up depending on different media enterpretations (Sonic X gives GUN a more sympathetic remorseful light which eases the value of their karma houdini a bit, Archie on the other hand makes them into Complete Monsters and even shows Gerald's decent into despair).

I just don't think stuff like government conspiracies work in the series. SatAm had dark concepts but they at least hid them in surreal concepts and execution that could connect more to the original games. SA1 similarly had war and conspiring, but at least obscured it with magical water gods and cute echidna tribes. SA2 just got rid of the Sonic coating and had photo realistic humans gunning each other down. It was more like a sci fi thriller.

That's partly why I dislike some of the darker Sonic themes. They're trying to mimic something the series isn't. Archie tries to be Marvel/DC or adds stuff like politics and genocide into the matter, while Sonic X and the games try tired anime cliches. SatAm and SA1 fit as darker enterpretations to me, since not only do they realise the series' limit for the most part and have darkness without being morbid and childishly 'mature' but they still maintain surreal concepts akin to the series. Beneath it all it's still goofy old Sonic fighting Robotnik/Eggman and his robots to save his animal friends.

When Charles mentioned the fact he knew what was going on while roboticized, for example, but couldn't do anything about it, he didn't seem to show any anger or anguish about it.

I don't know about you, but if that happened to me, it would be a very awful experience.

Even the scenes where Mobians were being roboticized, it was like some goofy transformation instead of showing the horror it really was. I mean, having someone turned to metal and a slave should have been portrayed alot worse. The idea of ending that way should send chills up your spine.

I didn't think it was a "goofy transformation". I admit, the way it was shown I thought could have been better, but I don't think what we got was bad.

And I've seen a lot of people comment on Charles's non-reaction to explaining their awareness, but since he's so calm about it and seems confused when he's first "brought back", I've always wondered if their consciousness is more like when a person's just about to fall asleep; you might be aware of what's going on, but not fully, and your ability to react emotionally is off. Only when you wake up do you really process what was going on.

It's hard to say really, at the end of it all, we only have Chuck's brief comment on the whole matter to judge it by, which just leaves the whole prospect coming off as rather pretentious. They could have just left it out and it would have had far less harm on the setup.

[Elisto Dragonwings]

I just don't think stuff like government conspiracies work in the series. SatAm had dark concepts but they at least hid them in surreal concepts and execution that could connect more to the original games. SA1 similarly had war and conspiring, but at least obscured it with magical water gods and cute echidna tribes. SA2 just got rid of the Sonic coating and had photo realistic humans gunning each other down. It was more like a sci fi thriller.

Actually, I agree, I never liked the human military aspect to it...it didn't really make sense in a Sonic series. But I actually was OK with the rest of it. I like Sonic as sci-fi.

[GekiTheReviewer]

Can anyone please tell me why Rouge, Omega, and Shadow started working for GUN anyway? What game did I miss? It always baffled, and confused the hell out of me as to why SEGA would take all three of their Anti-Heroes and make them start working for the government.

[LaserX5]

Actually, I agree, I never liked the human military aspect to it...it didn't really make sense in a Sonic series. But I actually was OK with the rest of it. I like Sonic as sci-fi.

I actually loved the idea of the organization G.U.N to be honest.

They were one of the better ideas from Sega IMO.

While I'm not too fond of the conspiracy involved with this group I'll admit, that sadly is a by product of a militia group like them.

Plus, when I really think about it, there were hints of human military during the Satam episode Blast to the Past.

Remember when King Max said Julian was a hero and the war was over? Well, I believe he was referring to his overall conquest of the Overlander army. That's one of the reasons why I'm not against a human military group within the Sonic franchise. Since Satam had this, I see no reason why it wouldn't fit.

Can anyone please tell me why Rouge, Omega, and Shadow started working for GUN anyway? What game did I miss? It always baffled, and confused the hell out of me as to why SEGA would take all three of their Anti-Heroes and make them start working for the government.

That is a good question. It was never explained with either of them. Rouge was already working with them during SA2. As for Shadow and Omega, I think they joined after Sonic Heroes, but that's only a guess.

[GekiTheReviewer]

That is a good question. It was never explained with either of them. Rouge was already working with them during SA2. As for Shadow and Omega, I think they joined after Sonic Heroes, but that's only a guess.

Still doesn't explain the why. I mean, I liked what Sonic X did, where Rouge was basically caught and forced to work with them, but as far as I know it's not cannon to the games and we still get no reason for Omega and Shadow. With Omega you get a reason in the comics but with Shadow it's like *Derp* I'm here now!

[LaserX5]

Still doesn't explain the why. I mean, I liked what Sonic X did, where Rouge was basically caught and forced to work with them, but as far as I know it's not cannon to the games and we still get no reason for Omega and Shadow. With Omega you get a reason in the comics but with Shadow it's like *Derp* I'm here now!

LOL

Exactly.

Sega couldn't even fill us in why G.U.N hired them in the first place.

It was like, "they're G.U.N agents now, deal with it."

[GekiTheReviewer]

Maybe it was explained in the Shadow game? I dunno, seems fishy to me. That game came out after Sonic Heroes sooooooo

[LaserX5]

Maybe it was explained in the Shadow game? I dunno, seems fishy to me. That game came out after Sonic Heroes sooooooo

I don't think so.

I played that game myself, and nothing in it suggested Shadow became a G.U.N agent.

I think Sega just decided to make him one without even thinking why.

[[USMC]OldSonicFan]

I think the "*derp* I'm here" is pretty much the best explanation that we've been given so far. He seems to be very lacking in purpose now that SA2 is over and they decided to revive him for his game. Perhaps G.U.N. is being used as a vehicle by which he finds his new purpose in life.

[Justin Summerville]

Darker themes could work as long as it's consistent with the rest of the series. Anime tends to do that a lot, and it often works - at least as far as I know. Perhaps part of the key means of a successful story with dark themes depends on not being condescending to its audience. Take the cartoon Teen Titans or Pixar's Up. Stuff like that juggles things in a balanced manner, and they come across as deeper products without resorting to over-the-top pretentiousness.

[Dark Fox]

Would I like to see a more mature Satam series? Yes I would. By mature I mean I'd like to see more mature storylines that can still be made suitable for all ages. However I don't want a R-rated Satam with sex and where the characters are swearing.