Ian Flynn wants Sally and Nicole to be a Lesbian Couple.

[Lynchenberg]

Yep, here we go right here. Right from the horse’s mouth, Ian Flynn himself recorded in his own podcast, saying he wants Sally to be gay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igC6aTVmM7s&t=56m16s

P.S.

Perhaps this is unrelated. Perhaps it isn't. But I want to say that one thing I really loved about Crossed by Garth Ennis is that two of the characters, a non-stereotypical homosexual man and a heterosexual blind girl, have the closest, sweetest relationship in the book; and it’s completely platonic. Whatever happened to people being close without wanting to f*** one another? Just another reason to only read creator-owned comics.

[LogiTeeka]

I think it's an interesting idea. Since Sally can no longer be paired with Sonic, that leaves plenty of room for her character to be developed in a new direction.

[Lynchenberg]

I think it comes off as forced when creators introduce a token gay character. It was the same when franchises began introducing token black characters, when that was the way to appear socially conscious. When a character is introduced to be "hip," "relevant," or "tolerant," you run the risk of creating a caricature just intended to check a box, not a fully-rounded human being. I think it’s the responsibility of new franchises, films, and stories to introduce characters who were envisioned as gay from the beginning. Although even then, it shouldn't be a requirement. Not every story has to represent every single race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation... in fact, they probably shouldn't. It annoys me how in North American films, token white characters are often introduced into environments where there wouldn't be any white people. But grafting these boxes onto existing characters is even worse. Which brings us to Sally and Nicole. I’m fine with LBGT characters in comics, in fact, I actively encourage it. But why force that onto a character whose clearly been portrayed as straight for over twenty years? Whether or not they're together, or if her feelings are even reciprocated, Sally's frustration with, and subsequent attraction to Sonic is VERY key to her character. She was invented with those qualities in mind, just like the best gay characters were invented with that aspect of who they are in mind, coupled with all the other things that make a person complete. Doing this to Sally would be like taking Steven Universe and making the lesbian characters straight just because you thought of a "cute" pairing for them. It's bad fan fiction. “Oh, it would be so kaiwaii if Sally and Nicole were in love, almost as good as ZADR." (Zim and Dib romance, for non-Invader Zim fans, or ones lucky enough not to know what I mean.) Beyond that, Sally shouldn't have to be in a relationship with anyone to be an interesting, rounded character. Attracted to people? Sure, sexuality is an important aspect of any character, even if it's not expressed. But for the reasons I discussed, making her gay would be a step backwards for her character development. It would just be another mask Ian Flynn props up in front of her to make her seem like a deep, interesting character. "Look guys, we're being brave and introducing a hot topic issue onto Sally, so you hopefully you won't notice how bland I've made her. Hopefully this stunt will mask that better then when I tried having her date Sonic again, or turned her into a robot. And by robot, I mean when she was roboticized, as outside of SatAM she's been little more than a robot in any incarnation."

[LogiTeeka]

Here's the thing though; this isn't the same Sally we knew from before. If Ian wants to make her lesbian or bisexual, I have no problem with that since it's a completely different version of the character. If it were the old continuity, it would be more troublesome. But because it's a reboot, that leaves plenty of freedom for newer interpretations.

Also, there's nothing in the relationship that suggests a sexual one. I mean, it's a kids comic. If there's any homosexual relationships going on, it's going to be kept to an intimate one - not because of the controversy (though that may become a deciding factor), but because of the content. Sexual scenes, no matter what orientation, are all considered taboo in children's media, but they can still get the message across to the audience through subliminal means. If there's any people expecting Sally to start seducing or making out with someone in the comics, than you're going to be deeply disappointed.

Also, if it's considered offensive to have token characters nowadays, then why does the whole Freedom Fighter team consist entirely of token characters? If each member is meant to be diverse and memorable, than I don't see anything wrong with adding a homosexual character to the group.

[Lynchenberg]

Here's the thing though; this isn't the same Sally we knew from before. If Ian wants to make her lesbian or bisexual, I have no problem with that since it's a completely different version of the character. If it were the old continuity, it would be more troublesome. But because it's a reboot, that leaves plenty of freedom for newer interpretations.

I'd agree with that somewhat if this was a true reboot in the sense that they just left the old universe alone, ended the book, and relaunched it at number one as it's own entity with no connection to the past book. Much like when they started Sonic Boom, there was no through-line from Sonic X, and when they started Sonic Underground it had no connection to Sonic SatAM. But the way Flynn wrote it, the comic makes it abundantly clear that these are, quite literally, the same characters from the old continuity, just lobotomized.

Once I probably would have agreed that if this was truly a new continuity, a gay Sally would be fine, but I've gotten to the point that I feel if that's the story you want to tell, you should really just make your own story with your own characters. Making Sally gay would be the least of the changes to her character at this point, and it makes me wonder why they're bothering to hang onto her (and the other SatAM elements/characters) at all anymore if they feel they have to completely change everything about them.

Also, there's nothing in the relationship that suggests a sexual one. I mean, it's a kids comic. If there's any homosexual relationships going on, it's going to be kept to an intimate one - not because of the controversy (though that may become a deciding factor), but because of the content. Sexual scenes, no matter what orientation, are all considered taboo in children's media, but they can still get the message across to the audience through subliminal means. If there's any people expecting Sally to start seducing or making out with someone in the comics, than you're going to be deeply disappointed.

Okay. Hmm. Well, that came out of nowhere. But sure, let's address this. By sexuality, I'm not talking about "making out" or "sex scenes," I'm talking about wanting to be attractive, to be loved, feeling attracted to someone, having crushes, how one relates to the opposite or same sex, making decisions based on hormones, that sort of thing. Those are characteristics directly linked to one's sexuality, even if said character never indulges in it. They're important things to consider if a character is going to be believable. But I don't know why I'm explaining that, as I did clearly state that it's an important thing to consider even "when it's not expressed," as would be the case for children's comics. You'd think its lack of expression would go without saying considering this is Sonic the Goddamn Hedgehog buuuut... okaaaay LogiTeeka, hope that clears things up for you.

It's neither here nor there anyway, because as I also stated previously, my real point is that "SallyXNicole" is really a bad, DeviantART level fan fiction idea. (And that's very revealing about Ian's approach to the book in general.)

Also, if it's considered offensive to have token characters nowadays, then why does the whole Freedom Fighter team consist entirely of token characters?

Well, first off, if you'd given my post more than a cursory glance, you'd know I never said it was offensive, I said that more often than not, it makes for flat, uninteresting characters who are defined by that one minority characteristic and nothing else, because they were invented simply to check a box.

I don't know what you're talking about in relationship to the Freedom Fighters being token characters. They do fit into character archetypes that are common in adventure stories, but archetypes and tokens are two completely different things. If you mean Bunnie's southern accent, or Antoine's French accent, those generally aren't considered persecuted minorities. Even if they were, they were envisioned from the beginning of the show with those characteristics in mind, both of which are fairly minor and don't define the characters. Bunnie would continue to be the same person with the same character quirks, even without her accent. On the other hand, I actually DO find Antoine offensive, as he's a ridiculously negative French stereotype. But, just like character archetypes and token characters aren't the same thing, stereotypes aren't either. In fact, they're very much the opposite. If (as Ken Penders intended,) Rotor was made the token gay character, the message would be "look at how hip and tolerant we are." The message of Antoine in SatAM is, "lol, look at how lame and cowardly the French are." I think that's one of the major failings of the show. But it's a completely different kind of failure than including a token character would be.

If each member is meant to be diverse and memorable, than I don't see anything wrong with adding a homosexual character to the group.

Theoretically, a gay character could be introduced into the book and work, because being diverse and memorable is in fact, the exact opposite of being a token character, the definition of which is a character who solely exists to be "the black one," or "the gay one," rather than a character who just happens to be one of these things. Considering his track record on characterization however, I can't imagine Ian Flynn introducing a character who'd read as anything other than "the gay one." Which is why I think it's the responsibility of better writers to create new franchises that represent minorities, instead of these groups being used as tactics to attract attention to franchises that have already run their course.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I could see a bisexual Sally in the post #252 Archieverse.

[Vindicator]

I think Ian Flynn has been searching the Internet too much...just because you see something that may look appealing does not mean it will work or that others will think its appealing I for one don't think it is. I mean we shouldn't convert characters just to fill our curiosity when well Sally has always felt like a Straight to me and Nicole is a Machine made into Feminine form so she may not even imagine lesbianism in a world where none exists, which is my opinion...we can't always apply all of our human traits to all creatures can we? how did Ian Flynn start thinking like that anyway? is it because of the whole Lesbian sterotypes outfits? I just don't know...it makes me feel weird though that's for sure.

[XabinOtter]

I wouldn't mind the reveal, if it wasn't for two things:

1. Ian announced it shortly after the comic ended, which is part of the reason why people balked at Ken Penders announcing his intention to make Rotor gay.

2. His treatment of the Gay Rotor reveal and relationship makes Ian's statement about his intention for Sally/Nicole rather hypocritical.

[Dark Fox]

2. His treatment of the Gay Rotor reveal and relationship makes Ian's statement about his intention for Sally/Nicole rather hypocritical.

Ian didn't know that Penders planned on making the Mobius 25 Years Later version of Rotor gay at the time and only found out years later.

[Hyram the Hedgehog]

He owns Sally?

[Lynchenberg]

He owns Sally?

Dun be so anti-FAHM-inist, Hyram, yuuu NOE no one owns woman, is sexist! Hah, hah, hah.

[SynjoDeonecros]

2. His treatment of the Gay Rotor reveal and relationship makes Ian's statement about his intention for Sally/Nicole rather hypocritical.

Ian didn't know that Penders planned on making the Mobius 25 Years Later version of Rotor gay at the time and only found out years later.

Supposedly, that's what he claims. Honestly, with Penders holding the title of Head Writer for so long in the comic before Ian took over, it's hard to imagine that he didn't leave at least a few notes about what he had planned, before he left. Also, Ian was a huge Sonic fanboy before he took over writing duties, so he likely would've followed the writers and artists of the comic online, and if he did, I find it hard to believe he missed Penders' teasing about the relationship on his message board. Now, to be fair, digging back into the link provided for the reveal, it was made in late 2009, 3 years after Ian did his take on Mobius: 25 Years Later, but that really isn't as long as people think, especially given how long Penders had been writing for the comic.

[TheRecoveredVet]

I'm currently reading the post-SGW issues so Im glad this thread is still active. While I don't have problems with LGBT characters (as long as theyre engaging), I do find it jarring that Sally was completely re-written in an already established continuity. I kinda echo Lynchenberg's statement being that if this was a new comic launched from scratch, Id accept that change, buts its not. Yet, these characters now have warped personalities as if they all have amnesia. I understand why from what I researched (which is a convoluted mess sadly), but it just doesnt seem ethical to change someone's sexuality as if its a choice. You cant just wake up one day and say "wait, I think I'm gay now even though Ive been attracted to the opposite gender all my life."

I have noticed some subtle implications between Sally and Nicole which is just...odd. Shes a computer, why would Ian think that would be an appropriate paring? To be quirky and progressive? It goes against everything Sally is cause shes acting like a brain-dead ditz fangirling over something she cant be intimate with.

For one why make her a lesbian in the first place? Is that going to enhance her character development? Is it cause girls with short 90s hairstyles that wear denim vests are now viewed as boyish lesbians? Sorry, but this whole thing is hard for me to process. Its like when Disney stated that Lando was pansexual including droids.

[Sonicroc]

It goes against everything Sally is cause shes acting like a brain-dead ditz fangirling over something she cant be intimate with.

Pfft, whatever man, I didn't realize having sex, etc., was a matter of intelligence!! XP

At least she's not with this guy...! (see attachment)

(Disclaimer: This isn't meant literally as anti-Sonally. I'm just giving Richard a hard time, lol)

[TheRecoveredVet]

It goes against everything Sally is cause shes acting like a brain-dead ditz fangirling over something she cant be intimate with.

At least she's not with this guy...! (see attachment)

(Disclaimer: This isn't meant literally as anti-Sonally. I'm just giving Richard a hard time, lol)

I stand corrected. What the hell was I thinking lol